Career-Calling

Want to be a Cartoonist? The New Yorker Cartoonist shares her journey and strategies to stay committed

• Pratibha Pandit • Season 1

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Zareen Choudhury is a Bangladeshi American Cartoonist who has been published in The New Yorker, The NIB, San Francisco Examiner and many art shops and she shares how she nurtures and juggles her day job with her freelance Cartoonist work.

Cartoons! The simple satirical and extremely powerful illustrations have been an integral part of our lives for as long as we can remember. According to art history pages at Rutgers University, early mentions of it dates back to 1800s with Oxford dictionary referring to cartoons as"a paper comic of current events" and"cartooning to caricature or to hold up to ridicule". Radicule or not, they have certainly held up a mirror to our political and social happenings, rising to prominence with the rise of newspapers. As print newspapers have become a thing of the past, content has moved online, and the creation of all forms of art is being taken over by computers, There are online portals and dedicated artists keeping the tradition of this visual form of expression alive. Today, we will learn about the art of cartooning, and what opportunities exist for you to showcase and even make a career out of it. This is Career-Calling And I'm your host, Pratibha Pandit My guest today, Zareen Choudhry is one such artist who has found her artistic expression through cartooning and has managed to nurture her art outside of her day job. Zareen's work has been published in The New Yorker, The Nib, san Francisco Examiner and Awry Comics, and have been showcased at local exhibitions, including The Drawing Room, The Kearny Street Workshop and Babylon Burning. Zareen holds an Undergrad and Master's degree in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, both from MIT and after a few years of stint as a software engineer at a few prominent technology companies, currently works as a communications manager at App Inventor Foundation, a nonprofit that empowers people to create apps that improve their lives. Zareen shares with us today, how she found cartooning, and strategies to nurture your passion while juggling your other commitments.

Pratibha:

Hi Zareen. Welcome to Career Calling.

Zareen:

Hi, nice to see you.

Pratibha:

You know, your journey from being a MIT Computer Science graduate to software engineer to now your career in social impact, you have kept your passion for cartooning alive all along and I cannot wait to hear your journey because a lot of people want to keep their interests, passions alive, and they don't know sometimes how to go about it. So, tell me, how did you stumble upon cartooning? Is this something that you've been doing since your childhood?

Zareen:

Yeah, great question! so I was definitely like always interested in cartoons. When I was younger, I used to love reading the cartoon part of the newspaper every Sunday I would come in color, I would love to read that and in high school I liked reading web comics like xkcd, but I was mostly just kind of a consumer. I didn't ever think of myself as someone who could make them. In college I tried, I made like a couple like cartoons on you know, pen and paper, but nothing really good, nothing worth showing to other people. It wasn't until like after I graduated from college actually, that was actually when I learned about New Yorker cartoons, which are these kind of like single panel, like black and white, funny cartoons that show up in the New Yorker magazine and I kind of learn about it through the internet cause I don't really get the magazine and I was like really intrigued by them. So I started like following a lot of these cartoonists on Instagram and just learning all about them. Like how do they submit, how does this work? Again, I tried making some on my own but didn't show them anywhere, didn't do anything with them. So it wasn't until the pandemic happened, that there was this one cartoonist I was following on Instagram, Amy Kurzweil, who regularly contributes to The New Yorker. She announced that she was starting like a Patreon community in this monthly workshop, to teach specifically how to make gag cartoons and so I started taking her class and that helped me really make it more consistently and see it as something that I could actually do and I started posting them on my social media. And then,from there I, found out about this other program. It was a cartoon mentorship program with another New Yorker cartoonist named Jeremy Nguyen. I applied and I actually got into it even though they only took a couple people and through that program, Jeremy helped me pitch my first piece to the New Yorker and they actually accepted it, which was crazy. That's kind of how I began my freelancing journey. It definitely wasn't something that I intended to do or really thought it would end up there, but, it's pretty crazy how it did.

Pratibha:

Yeah, it's good that you got the opportunities along the way as well. I think that's important. Now, what are the, what are the different types of cartoons? Are there different, genre of cartooning?

Zareen:

Yeah, so the one I was talking about, like in the New Yorker, those are considered gag cartoons. So again, those are just like one panel. The New Yorker style is in black and white, but that's not like a necessary component of it and they always have some sort of like punchline or a joke. So the purpose is for them to be humorous so that's gag cartoons. Political cartoons also kind of fall under that category and then once you have multi-panel things, so like, you know, more than one those are considered comics. So, the ones that you see in the newspaper are usually like three or four panels, so those are considered like cartoon strips or comics and then you probably, many people here of cartooning they think of like comic books. So that's also another genre I would consider. And then, I think a common misconception when I, when I say like do cartooning, is people think it's like TV cartoons, but that's like not what I'm talking about. That's considered like animation. So that's, yeah, that's kind of a totally different field. These are like static images either being published online or in print, either coming in single panel or multi-panel and also I'll note that unlike gag cartoons, comics are not necessarily have to be humorous. Like those can be serious, those can be, you know, autobiographical can be a memoir, things like that.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm. How, different cartooning is from any other form of visual arts, like you know you can sketch or drawing for other purposes. Is it very similar?

Zareen:

Yeah, so I mean, cartooning is kind of, I like to think of it as it's a combination of Illustration and writing. So drawing and sketching would be one component of it whereas, in a illustration, it's just supposed to be some sort of visual right? In contrast to that, like gag cartoons for example, they have a very specific purpose, which is like they're telling a joke through the medium of visuals right? So the purpose is not just to be a visual and then in the case of like multi-panel comics, those are often trying to tell like a story or some sort of a narrative.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm. So writing and storytelling is very much part of cartooning.

Zareen:

exactly.

Pratibha:

What other skills are necessary when you are doing cartooning? You may have learned about it, or generally what you see, what are what are necessary for a cartoonist?

Zareen:

Yeah. So I would say I think like when most people will look at cartoons, they would think that drawing an illustration is one of the most important. But actually I would say that you don't really need to have a formal drawing background there are a lot of really, really successful and popular web comics out there who have very, very simplified drawing style.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm.

Zareen:

Ever seen xkcd? They use just stick figures right? And it's like, despite being like so simplistic, it's hugely popular, right? And so that's why I like to say, You, you just need to be able to like clearly visually convey like what is the context? Who are the characters, what is the setting? Like, give the important like contextual information, but you don't need to, let's say get like the human figure completely correct. Or depending on your style, you don't need to know how to do like shading or coloring, I think there's like a lot of leeway in the drawing style and like how much of the illustration background you have which is really cool. So I would say the more important parts of it to have a successful cartoon if you're trying to do like a humorous gag cartoon it's the ability to tell jokes, right? So, you know, being able to develop your sense of humor, developing your voice of what type of humor do you like to convey your thoughts through? You know, are you like more satirical? Are you like absurdist or is it more like a sweet wholesome style? And then knowing how to convey it in the punchline through a concise and effective way. So the kind of writing and editorial skill becomes important there, especially speaking specifically about single panel gap cartoons, you have like very limited word economy. You just have like basically one sentence. And so yeah, you have to make, you have to choose like, what is the right vocabulary I should use here, like the punctuation, am I using too many words? So, yeah that's actually something that I didn't expect to be an important skill, and the last thing I'll say is that having good observational skills is important. Not just like you can write stuff about your daily life, things that you see or experience. but it can also be like about like politics or the current state of the economy or like social issues, right? And so being able to digest that information, observe what things are like absurd or funny about this situation and then how can I connect this with something else. So yeah, kind of having that in the back of your mind is an important skill.

Pratibha:

Finding humor around you.

Zareen:

Exactly. Yeah, that's well said.

Pratibha:

Now, it's one thing to be able to, write these cartoons in another to get published, right? Those are two separate ball games. What is the process like? Do these magazines or news organizations have dedicated cartoonists, or it is a pool that you keep submitting and then you need to get noticed. How does that

Zareen:

work? So it is nowadays it's pretty much all freelance. I think many years ago, many decades ago, cartoons were much bigger. They used to appear in all publications, all magazines, right? Like Mad Magazine, Playboy, literally anything you picked up would have them. And I think back then they probably had more like staff, full-time cartoonists, kind of like staff writers. But nowadays they don't exist in many publications unfortunately, at least major ones I would say. So the pool looks more like freelance pitches and submissions which I think opens it up to a wider audience because you don't need to develop a career out of it necessarily in order to do it, it means anyone can submit here and there when they want. The New Yorker is obviously the biggest magazine that publishes cartoons but there are also a lot of other both print and online like smaller publications that publish them as well. And each one kind of has its own guidelines. For example, for The New Yorker for the general public they have a page, a submittable page and you're allowed to submit like a batch of 10 cartoons once a month. And then if they decide to accept it, they will let you know. But I think they're a little bit notorious not being very quick to respond for the general submissions. And then other places, you know, they'll have for example, there's a magazine called Alta Magazine that also does a lot of cartoons and they publish quarterly, so they only have four times a year, and you can basically email the editor with a batch for consideration. Other places have a more ongoing rolling submissions and acceptances, like Weekly Humorist and Air Mail. There are more on like a weekly or like biweekly basis. But yeah, usually you can't submit something that has been published before, so even if it's been posted on your Instagram or Twitter account or anything, they won't consider something that has been seen publicly on the internet before, and they usually don't accept simultaneous submissions. Well, some of them might, but typically, you don't wanna send the same cartoon to multiple, you send it to one and then if they don't accept it, then you move on to the

Pratibha:

next. Even though it is you know, online or not, the sketching itself, the cartooning itself is happening digitally. Is that right? Or do you do

Zareen:

yeah, yeah. I currently do everything digitally. So I use an iPad, and Apple pencil, and I use a program called Procreate. And I think those are pretty popular set of tools that a lot of cartoonists I know but definitely I also know many cartoonists who still work traditionally, they use pen and ink on paper.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When you are submitting these it's your free playing field. Like you can come up with the topic you're not working towards a theme, right? It's your imagination basically?

Zareen:

Yeah, yeah. So some like every magazine does have its own voice, so they do, even if they don't explicitly say you can see based on their past publications what types of cartoons they lean towards or like what type of humor. Some publications will specifically say if it's like The Economist for example, like they're looking for things related to economics, right? So yeah, depending on the magazine, they might have a particular spin or angle or topics that they lean towards. But yeah, others basically what you said is correct about pitching like whatever comes up to me.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Is it more common or only form of doing cartooning is freelance right now? Or is there opportunity to make it a kind of a full-time career? Is that possible even?

Zareen:

Yeah. So. Most cartoonists who do it full-time will kind of have a couple of different revenue streams that are like all adjacent to cartooning. So you know, many of The New Yorker cartoonists they'll take on other gigs or side things. Some examples are, editorial illustrations these would be commissioned by specific magazines, or it could be some company like AT&T or some department store like Macy's is commissioning someone to create illustrations for their advertising campaign, for example. So that's one source of revenue, another way is a lot of people will have a store, I also recently opened a store where you can sell your art prints you know, zines or stickers, things like that. A lot of people have recently started like subscription-based things like Patreon, you might be like teaching a class there or just pushing out content. Substack is another similar place to do that. Some folks also have teaching positions as adjunct faculty or teachers then of course getting into publishing, so many cartoonists will naturally go into creating like a graphic novel or illustrating for a children's book or a picture book. So those are some additional ways to get revenue or ways that are a bit more stable.

Pratibha:

Now freelance also, even if you're submitting as a freelancer, you do get paid, right? It's not just that your work is getting noticed. You still get paid?

Zareen:

Yeah. Well, again, it depends on the publication. Places like The New Yorker and Alta Magazine, Air Mail, they do pay, but many publications can't afford to pay. So some of them are for free.

Pratibha:

You do have a full-time job, you transitioned from being a software engineer to a communications manager. How do you keep up with your passion for cartooning? Like,

Zareen:

Yeah.

Pratibha:

certain amount of time or what's your strategy there?

Zareen:

Yeah, that's a great question because it's something that I've been adjusting to this year when I started this new job. But, I think I'm finally figuring out ways to make it work which I'm happy to share because I know a lot of people are kind of struggling with this. Yeah. So I think the biggest thing for me is finding ways to create structure, and there are a couple different places where I try to add structure. So one is in my routine, at first I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like so tired after work, or, am I going to have to work on my weekends to do this freelance work? And that was feeling like very exhausting, and I didn't wanna like give up my evenings and weekends. But, what helped me is instead of kind of forcing myself to find the motivation, I instead just blocked off certain hours, certain days of the week where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna treat this kind of like an appointment, like I have to do it, this is my creative time, like an hour after work on this day, an hour after work on that day, I have to honor that, you know? And that kind of like put pressure off from me having to find time, it's like it's already set in my schedule. And then thing is having like the accountability. So,I would suggest that if you maybe have a friend who's also trying to work on similar things or their own personal projects, maybe you can both get together and be working at the same time just on different things or if they're not in the same space as you, you call up friends or get on a Zoom or something like that. So I've recently started doing that with a couple friends, just going to a cafe on certain days after work and, that is my time and space to be doing it, and since I'm telling other people I'm gonna be there, I kind of have to be there, right?

Pratibha:

It's

Zareen:

almost like a

Pratibha:

fitness routine, right?

Zareen:

yeah. Yeah, exactly. yeah. And then another thing is that for like any type of like new skill or craft, you kind of need the feedback loop and the community of other people who are doing similar things, who can you know, give you feedback on your work. You can learn from others. You can get inspired by what they're doing and just grow your skillset by having other people around you who are in a similar field. So, I have also have a group of a couple of friends who are also cartoonists, who we regularly share feedback with and share our work with. And another great way to do all of these things is to sign up for classes. I have like the Patreon community that I joined during the pandemic that I'm still going to once a month, and then I've also, recently I'm trying to build my writing skills. So, I took, for example, a humorous personal essay writing class. Right now I'm taking a satire writing class, and that's kind of like the ultimate way to, you know, it forces you to have a routine. It creates a system of accountability for you and you automatically have a set of peers and teachers who are giving you really valuable feedback. So yeah, my biggest piece of advice would be sign up for classes wherever you can.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm. Do you set any targets on how many cartoons do you submit or how much of your work you wanna submit to these publications? Like some cadence like that? Like, I have a target that I want to edit at least one video a week.

Zareen:

Mm-hmm. That's great. Yeah, I set my targets more around like process rather than outcome. So I kind of have like, I'm gonna work on this stuff, this many hours per week, you know?

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm.

Zareen:

But I, I found that it didn't work as well for me when I was trying to say like, oh, I have to submit like 10 cartoons per week or every two week. It was like a bit too much pressure for me, and also I realized that I don't want to like just be tied down to doing gag cartoons as the only format. I'm really interested in exploring longer format like graphic memoir or narrative pieces, and those ones I I treat them more as like projects, like long term projects. So yeah, I would say I'm more have like process goals as opposed to outcome goals.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's great. Now in these type of work, where you submit and then it's not in your control, like the regular jobs, right? You don't know whether it'll get published or not. Oftentimes it can be very frustrating not knowing or initial success until they find initial success. Are there any tips that you would like to give on those initial years when you're still trying to, like how long did it take for you once you start and you know, any tips that you would like to give?

Zareen:

Yeah, I mean, I, I think that's a really great question because that is a huge part of any of these types of creative pursuits especially in like things that get published. It's super out of your control, and I think it's an easy way that people can let them get discouraged. But, basically what I would say is, some advice that I got from my teacher Amy who kind of framed it more as you are building up your portfolio, you are building up your body of work, and I know it's hard to actually feel this way. It's easier said than done, but regardless of whether you are getting published or not, as long as you can build up your own portfolio and like grow yourself, like your skills, develop your own personal style, develop your voice, I feel like those are the signs of growth that are more important to this career path or this passion. Those are kind of the goal posts that people should try to focus on, and if you do get published on the side, that's great, that is awesome. But I feel like there's kind of this trap of if you're setting publication to be your goal, since it's so out of your control, it can lead to a lot of disappointment and discourage you from moving forward. So yeah, that's why I think it's also another reason it's really important to just build a community of peers who are also doing the same thing commiserating in the similar rejections because rejection is a huge part. Even people who are getting published very frequently, everyone's getting tons of rejections. So it should be a normalized part of it. And Yeah. If you can just build like a community around it who can like help you grow in

Pratibha:

those other aspects.

Zareen:

that I mentioned, I think that's the most important thing.

Pratibha:

Mm-hmm, This is my common question to all of my guests those who are interested, what are the resources that you would recommend

Zareen:

Yeah, so there are a couple of really great resources that offer classes and workshops and community for the cartooning community. One of them, there's this organization school called Sequential Artists Workshop or SAW. So they do, I think they're based out of Florida, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't live there, in addition to in-person classes, they have a lot of online classes of different types as well as they have a bunch of these communities and groups where you can create accountability for each other, you can share your work and things like that. Then they also have these Friday evening free workshops every week I think. Another one that's similar to that is CCS, it's Center for Cartoon Studies, they also offer a bunch of workshops both in person and online. Those are the two biggest ones I would say. There's also 92NY based out of New York offers a ton of online classes on like, literally everything. Like not just cartooning, but like all the creative fields. And then they have like a couple of cartooning comics classes here and there. And then if you're interested specifically in gag cartoons, New Yorker style cartoons I know I've plugged it a bunch of times, but Amy Kurzweil's Patreon community is probably the most fantastic resource for that. It's like both a Slack group as well as a monthly Zoom class. And then finally there's this, if you're looking for places to get published, there's a newsletter that you can pay for I don't think it's too expensive but it's called Gag Recap. They sent out like regular lists of literally all the possible publications ranging from like really small and specific to the really big ones that have calls for cartoon submissions. Yeah.

Pratibha:

Great! Thank you so much Zareen, I think you really shared some great tips. I am sure I will keep an eye on your cartoons going forward. And also congratulations to you on keeping up your passion. I think that's really important for everybody to know that you can have a job and you can still keep your passions alive. thank you so much for joining me today.

Zareen:

definitely. And thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to share a little bit about myself.

That is Zareen Choudhury, San Francisco based, Bangladeshi American cartoonist, who found and nurtured her calling which was outside of her formal education she initially pursued. What is your passion that is waiting to be nurtured by you? Maybe the time is now! You can find all the useful resources that Zareen shared in the description section of the YouTube video. This is career calling. And I'm your host Pratibha Pandit. Thank you for tuning in.