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The enchanting world of wine a journey through time flavor and elegance. Human race's one of the favorite beverages has been an integral part of our civilization for thousands of years. From the ancient Egyptians to the Romans, wine has always held a special place in the hearts and minds of cultures throughout history, for whom, wine was not just a beverage, it was a symbol of prosperity, a gift from the gods, and an essential element in religious rituals. Fast forward today, when Wine has become a global phenomenon, wine is still more than just a beverage, it's an experience that brings people together, it whispers tales of terroir the distinctive character imparted by the land, climate and the artistry of wine making traditions carried forward through generations. It's a glass of liquid history that transports you through time and cultures captivating you in the allure of each unique bottle. As wine gained cultural significance and became more and more complex the need for experts in the field grew to bridge the gap between winemakers wine regions and wine lovers. In today's episode, we will learn about professionals who dedicate themselves to mastering the nuances of grape varieties, vineyard practices, wine making techniques, the history and the chemistry of each bottle, helping curate exceptional wine selections and offer personalized recommendations to wine lovers Sommelliers. This is Career-Calling And I'm your host, Pratibha Pandit My guest today is Natalie Matthews. A certified Sommelier with The Court of Master Sommeliers, Americas. Natalie has been a Sommelier, Wine Director, Director of Service in all levels of restaurant management, in her front of house operations career spanning 14 years. Within the last decade, she has helped open five restaurants, including wine list creation for two of those five. Her varied restaurant experience span from high volume and large-scale operations to tasting menu in multi-starred Michelin fine dining. Today, Natalie will share with us the hard work and dedication required behind the glamorous world of wine and what it takes to be a respected Sommelier.

Pratibha Pandit: 3:02

Hi, Natalie. Welcome to Career Calling.

Natalie Mathews: 3:03

Hi. How are you?

Pratibha Pandit: 3:05

Good. Thank you so much for joining me today and offering to share your experience, specifically with the wine and Sommelier experience. For the uninitiated like me who often go look at the description of a wine to see how it tastes can you please tell me what role do a Sommelier play or what being a Sommelier mean?

Natalie Mathews: 3:28

Sure. So to be a Sommelier there's so many things. For one, you have to work in a restaurant, a fully serviceable restaurant with a wine list. It doesn't have to be very large or ultra premium wine list, which are the types of restaurants that you'll most notably see wine professionals or Sommeliers in. But every aspect of service has its touches from Sommeliers from the greeting at the host stands, sometimes you can find us there to running your food, to busting your table, to facilitating any other needs while you're in the restaurant. But then most notably of course, making the proper recommendations upon talking to you, getting a feel for what it is that you're looking to enjoy, or if you're feeling a little adventurous and you want to explore something different, cultivating relationships, especially with people who are frequent patrons, sometimes even the one time diners who happened to be in from out of town and just really needed a really special night. But then there's a whole backside of being a sommelier that a lot of people aren't aware of as it pertains to restaurants. And that's the list curation so lots of hours spent doing procuring what you're gonna put on your list. If you're a really talented Sommelier, you'll have enough depth in certain regions, depending on the cuisine of your restaurants or the interest of the majority of your regular guests. Also you're trying to idealistically create a wine list that has balance within even the specific regions. And then you have accounting inventory invoicing, seller maintenance, especially for the larger restaurants that hold millions of dollars in wine inventory and COGS reporting p P&L reports, having to keep track of what wines were spoiled or not good and not able to be sold, and getting them back to the many, many different vendors that we work with, vendor relationship. Fitting in time to do tastings with them. So I do say that being a Sommelier is 50% administrative. In that side there's a whole business of wine aspect that each Sommelier has to be savvy with, and so it's not necessarily a glamorous life, most of us develop back issues also, so it's

Pratibha Pandit: 6:18

not that glamorous. Yeah. That's really interesting. Yes. I know a lot of the times I've heard people I'm very interested in wine, I want to be a Sommelier, but there's a whole other side to it that is also required. So my understanding is you need a certification, right, to be a Sommelier?

Natalie Mathews: 6:38

I would say to do the job in its totality as restaurants need it no, you don't have to have a certification. Some of the most talented wine professionals I've worked with have not had certifications because of either political reasons, they don't like certifying bodies or the type of people that those certifying bodies tend to give certificates to. It's almost kind of like, certain people are attracted to certain things and that creates a political system around it, and I've noticed without fail, all of these unaccredited wine folks were just absolutely allergic to that. But they were no less talented, no less knowledgeable and so it's my opinion that no, you don't need to, however, much like the corporate world gatekeeping is now all being strongly enforced by, well, what degrees do you have and what certificates do you have in? And, and, and, and, and so the world of being a Sommelier has become similarly matched with that type of mentality.

Pratibha Pandit: 7:48

Mm-hmm. But for those who do want to get a certification tell me a little bit about that world. Is it like regular college degree or is it independent bodies? Who is authorized to give that?

Natalie Mathews: 8:03

So for Sommelier in particular The Court of Masters Sommeliers Americas or if you are overseas a Court of Masters Sommeliers started in England, so it's technically a British wine society. But it's grown so big now that you can find it in Asia, you can find it in South America. Well, the Americas in its totality, I should say, as well as Europe. There's also another certifying body called WSET, the Wine and Spirits Education Trust. And it's not really more so for Sommeliers, although a lot of Sommeliers do supplement their Court of Masters Sommeliers education or pursuit of certification with WSET because it's more so for wine writers or those who want to go the wine writing and other wine side of business route. Because if you go through WSET, then you can qualify to be allowed to. Test for Master of Wine, another British certification for wine professionals. But you'll see more so wine writers and people who are in the importing and distribution side of wine, winery side. Just maybe more so the supply side of wine tends to go through WSET.

Pratibha Pandit: 9:32

Mm-hmm. I've always wondered this whole knack for really finding the wine and finding the taste. Is it something that a skill that can be developed or is it something that the pallet that people are born with?

Natalie Mathews: 9:45

So the best Soms that I've known have already had very, very acute sensory detail, like really sensitive noses or pallets and just like predators in that sense it's like you see animals and they're always picking up scents and you're on a trail to find that badger or whatever. The best Sommeliers are like that. They have very sensitive,

Pratibha Pandit: 10:11

Uhhuh. So it is some sort of inborn talent you think

Natalie Mathews: 10:15

I think so, because those who don't really have that, they tend to struggle and then they get frustrated and then they peter out. They can sometimes progress on, and then the rest of us are just like, how'd you get here? So I think you have to it's a two-part thing. It's not enough to just have a super sensitive set of senses. You need to learn how to develop the cognitive functions with that. Cause as you go through the tasting grid and you're trying to taste through typicity, you have to match the sensation or the sense or the sites that you're picking up with very key descriptors of what's in your glass. So Everybody's not born with that muscle that is learned, that is trained. You spend tens of thousands of dollars exercising that muscle once you've even learned it. So there's a two fold thing.

Pratibha Pandit: 11:11

How did you get attracted to this line? I mean, was it something that you always had on your mind, or was there a moment when you got attracted? I remember for the very first time I tasted wine after watching the movie Sideways, I remember, whoa. This is very philosophical I wanna taste why and see. So how did you get into this line? Tell me your journey.

Natalie Mathews: 11:39

Yeah, my journey is a long one because it starts in childhood as it does for many of us. If you grew up around wine or your parents it was really big part of your dining experience, which for me it was, then our interests are peaked at a very early age. I remember going to buy wine with my mother all of the time cuz I just wanted to look at the labels. I always felt like there was something attractive about the labels and that it kind of like told a story in a sense. I mean, that's probably the best way to put it cuz I'm not a human that likes stories. I always question the storyteller, so I'm a little Iffy on stories. I don't need bedtime stories for everything but, like I was just always attracted to see the labels, I wanted to learn more about it, and at that time we were shopping at Total Wine, which is still in existence now, and it's much larger than it was back in the nineties. But I had to have special permission to enter the store because I was under 18 and this was a store in Virginia. So I always got to go because I mean, it's like a regular and they have these free guides, which they still have where all this information about their products are found in and I remember coming across this one article where it talks about how do you get into the wine business? And I had stricken out with the three ways with which people were getting into them before the proliferation of the internet, which was either being born into the business son or daughter of a winemaker, or you were really, really ultra wealthy, elite part of that super society or you had a sponsor, someone who was really willing to take you on peel the curtain back fully immerse you into the knowledge and the all of the things that you needed to know, which it wasn't that readily accessible to most people. Even if you did come from a family that wasn't poor or was pretty financially well off like mine. And so that's how we always had tons of wine in the house. But I did not have any of those two ways in. So fast forward I don't know, a decade and a half, and I'm in college, I start working in restaurants, my parents hated that because that was not one of the three paths that they had laid out for me, which was either being a lawyer, a doctor, or something else, highly paid, that I wouldn't struggle. Also, there's another aspect that's very much forgotten when it comes to African Americans and the restaurant industry. My parents were very well aware of what the service industry kind of like was birthed from, and they wanted me to have nothing to do with it. I didn't understand that at the time, and I'm acutely aware of it now that I'm in my thirties. But anyways I kept being drawn to restaurants and I did not really know why I kept trying to spend as much time at the bar or wherever wine was kept. And it wasn't until 2011 where I was opening, Seasons 52 in Bethesda, Maryland, and at the time, Darden, who was the parent company of that employed a Master Sommelier who was always a part of new store openings for Capital Grill and, Seasons 52. And he was brought on to teach us about the wine list, which that was the first wine list of note that I was able to work with. I didn't know anything about wine. But it was through him that he kind of like opened my mind to, Hey, if I stick with this and I seek out these types of restaurants, then maybe I will be able to learn and then start to become a part of the certification process that he was a part of and he shared his story with me. He called me out on day one when I had said this was bullshit, when he was trying to teach us how to blind taste wine. And then the third day he is Natalie, you should take this a lot more seriously. You're better at it than you think. And then

Pratibha Pandit: 16:19

took that

Natalie Mathews: 16:19

and ran with it. And so it's been a very big part of my life ever since.

Pratibha Pandit: 16:24

Mm-hmm. That's very interesting. Now you talked about being in the wine profession or a wine business, what are the different paths? What are the different categories of wine profession that one can embark on?

Natalie Mathews: 16:41

So I can't speak in totality for that because there's a whole side of the wine business that I haven't been a part of, which is like the importing distribution side. But I know that for restaurants, you could either be a Sommelier of course, or a wine director or beverage director because being a sommelier encompasses all things beverage, anything that's fermented or partially fermented or not even fermented if it's liquid, we are required to know about it in great detail. A lot of us are also in other areas of management, like General Manager or Director of Operations, or Regional Directors of restaurants. Or wine bar owners, restaurant owners. could also go winery side, which there's the time that I worked for a winery, very briefly, they kept trying to push me on the sales floor. And so others may have a better chance of going into the different sides, like direct to consumer or marketing if they have that type of experience or becoming like a brand ambassador. You could of course go to the importing and distribution side, and I hear that that's there's a whole nother world there, so I I can't speak on that unfortunately,

Pratibha Pandit: 18:14

There is a lots

Natalie Mathews: 18:17

of paths you could take.

Pratibha Pandit: 18:19

Mm-hmm. You earlier talked about developing that skills over a period of time that tasting and spending tens of thousands of dollars. Can you talk a little bit more about it? What are the core skills other than the administration side, what are the core skills of knowing about wine and food pairing maybe, and what it takes to develop that?

Natalie Mathews: 18:42

So To be able to speak knowledgeably about wine, let alone be able to pair it with other food, one, you have to know how heat, fat, salt, and acid work together. How that applies to the structures of wine, the compounds found in wine. So there's a very big chemical aspect of wine that one needs to know, and it gets very esoteric when you go to the chemistry side of wine. Need to know things about viticulture, laws, the protected growing regions, and what each of their laws are because it correlates to what's gonna be found in that bottle. You need to be understanding at least in several different European languages. You need to understand the culture with which those Wine growing regions are found in oh man. So many different things.

Pratibha Pandit: 19:42

Tell me more about the language and the culture side. Why is it important?

Natalie Mathews: 19:46

I mean, because you can't just take the bottle and not know how it came to be. You need to understand that what grows together goes together. So you, what was the type of cuisine and that culture, why was this grape cultivated and saved over others, because a lot of let's say in France no, Italy is a good example of this. Italy, I think has genetically traced 5,000 different grapes.

Pratibha Pandit: 20:17

3000

Natalie Mathews: 20:18

of them are only ever understood somewhat by the most knowledgeable viticulturalists and vinologists, but we only really technically deal with a maybe a couple hundred of them. And in the last century, half of those almost became extinct in favor of international varieties. So there's just so much that most people don't realize or know. And even if you're a Master Sommelier, you still don't know it all, a lot and more than most, but it's almost impossible to note all. And then laws change, every year. New, new things are allowed, new things are permitted. New areas of designation come into existence. Certain things can change within the laws, like there's a maybe the minimum alcohol level raise 0.5% in Bianco Classico, for example that didn't necessarily happen, but because of global warming. But you do see that in other different places around the world. So there's a lot to keep up on, and then all of this is important also because you're never going to note if what's in your glass is true to typicity or not. Is it an outlier? Is it some avantgarde or esoteric winemaker trying to reinvent the wheel in this Cabernet Franc from south of France is it true to typicity or is it like something funky and off brand or overly oaked or whatever have you? You need to know these things,

Pratibha Pandit: 22:02

Mm-hmm. So all of this it sounds like you had to be constantly studying this whole area, right? You do,

Natalie Mathews: 22:09

it's a full-time job outside of your full-time job.

22:13

Path to becoming a certified Sommelier requires dedication, commitment, and ongoing passion for wine. It may take several years of study and practice to attain a desired level of certification. Sommelier has certifications offer a structured path for wine professionals to advance their knowledge, skills, and credentials. These certifications are typically offered by reputable organizations, such as Court of Master Sommeliers, Americas and several other international organizations, and come in different levels. Each representing a higher degree of expertise, mastery, and of course, difficulty. After an introductory level, there are three levels of certifications Certified Sommelier, Advanced Sommellier and the pinnacle of Sommelier certifications, The Master Sommelier. Each level so difficult that there are only 269 Master Sommeliers in the world with most taking multiple attempts to pass. In the history of Sommelier certifications that are only 14 people who have passed the Master Sommelier examinations in the first attempt.

Pratibha Pandit: 23:20

Even for the certification is it like that? Is it more of a self-study? If you wanna get a certification, how does that work?

Natalie Mathews: 23:27

That's a good question. With the Court of Masters Sommeliers, you don't know what you're gonna be asked, and that's a standard that's set after the first level. The first level and it's been a long time since I've taken it, so it could have changed since then. I'm not sure that it has though. There is a course that kind of calibrates everybody with what to expect should you continue through the course. I mean through the different levels of certification with the court, and then at the end of the second day, we had an exam. They had introduced us to blind tasting. I don't remember. I don't think we had to blind taste any wine then, though. I don't think so. And then the second level, which is certified Sommelier, you had no idea what you were gonna be asked. It is examination that's taken into three parts. So you have the theoretical exam, you have the service practical, and then you have the blind tasting element. And you had better know those things by then and how to do it and arrive to the answers on your own or else you were gonna fail. And that's where it really differed from level one, level three, even worse. So still the same three areas of testing the theoretical portion, the service, practical and blind tasting. But now you have more wines. You have a, it's almost like a mini Master Sommelier exam cuz their exam follows the same rules and regulations. Your tasting grid is much more detailed than it was in certified. You are now also tasting six wines total certified. When I took it, it was only two wines. One red and one white. Well, now it's three reds and three whites.

Pratibha Pandit: 25:29

Okay. Mm-hmm.

Natalie Mathews: 25:31

Your service practical is way more detailed, way more difficult. You also have spirit. Spirits testing in full because they're gonna ask you to make cocktails on top of all of the other things that you're gonna be tested on. And then the theory gets really difficult and intense and dialed down into laws and different sorts of classifications and. You have to identify areas that are shown to you just as a map and there's nothing else really labeled on it. You need to know what the shapes of the regions look like. You need to know way more things. Yes. In detail. And it's it's intense and it'll make your hair fall out. Speak from knowledge, from the amount of stress that you are going to encounter and then the master of sommelier exam is very, very different than all of it because each of the three parts are taken some like months apart from each other like it, it's examination that happens over the course of a couple of days just for each part.

Pratibha Pandit: 26:49

Very intense. Yeah. I remember watching a documentary about it, about the whole preparation and all of that. For somebody who is interested like you, when you were starting out or when you were just interested about the wine, what would be your advice? Like, how to get started, how to plan their journey? Where do they start?

Natalie Mathews: 27:10

Hmm. Working in a restaurant that's first and foremost, be on the floor seek out places that offer wine education.

Pratibha Pandit: 27:20

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Mathews: 27:21

Start maybe as a seller hand so someone who is getting familiar with what is on the list, because you're actually responsible for receiving the wine as it comes in and putting it away. You're getting FaceTime with the labels cause. That's another part of examination too. Sometimes labels will be shown, and it's literally just the artwork, everything but the words you should know. If it's a a classic line, you should know exactly what it's so being a seller hand gives you invaluable experience. Due to the way that restaurants are nowadays, a lot of, some lias are put into that position without having any previous experience, and you will learn as you go. Some people are best served in their educational process that way. Try to find books that kind of like encompass all aspects of wine. Like one of the first books that I read was Kevin Zraly's Windows on the World, and I don't have that book here with me in California. But it was the easiest read to become familiar with all of the things that I needed to know, or all of the basics that I needed to know to hit the ground running. And then I expounded upon that with Karen MacNeil's The Wine Bible, which is much more intense than the first book, but, now reading, it's like a breeze. These things become easier with exposure and time, also join a tasting group. I had already passed certified by the time I joined my first tasting group, and so I felt so overwhelmed sitting there with people that were studying for advanced and master already. And I spent the first six months just being silent so that I can hear, way that they think I could connect the dots, I could ask questions. I could network and gain trust of people who would inevitably be with me for like the rest of my life, or at least the rest of my professional life. Some of my richness friendships have come from the first tasting group that I

Pratibha Pandit: 29:51

Hmm.

Natalie Mathews: 29:52

back in Washington, DC were very, very beneficial to my growth process and also the jobs that I ended up getting afterwards. Invaluable.

Pratibha Pandit: 30:05

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that is the parallel aspect of every profession that I interview the practical knowledge and networking seems to be the two most important aspect no matter which line you are in. Finally I wanna ask you for the commoners like us with not much right knowledge, being a expert in the field, what are some of the most common mistakes people do while having wine, it's just a fun question

Natalie Mathews: 30:35

Oh, Oh.

Pratibha Pandit: 30:36

makes you laugh maybe.

Natalie Mathews: 30:38

Yes. Because I don't think I'll be alone when I say this. If you don't know, don't fake it. Just please don't. It's, it can really set you up for disappointment more so than us cause I'm trying to really water here and it's like that first impression, sometimes you can't get over it or get past it. Because humans aren't really wired in that manner, even though we are in the hospitality industry, and there's a lot of things that we should really just like account for. But there are levels beyond setting yourself up for that type of failure. So if you think that you know it all and then you go ahead and make a selection, and you didn't think that you needed to consult someone else in the restaurant who may be knowledgeable about what you're getting into, and then you taste it and you don't like it. Most of us are not gonna take that back. It's still gonna be on your check. You know why? Well, because if you had a conversation with us, you know like a respectful conversation cuz we aren't your servants then you would've gotten to the realization that, hey, maybe this bottle is not gonna taste like what it is that you actually have in your mind that you want, and it doesn't take as long to figure out what it is that you want. Even if you don't say outrightly what it is, we know how to lead you to the answer. But if you just wanna go ahead and jump off the cliff yourself and it's not easy to talk to you, then it is on you at the end of the day. So, we're not just there to look pretty in the glamorous side that most people think it is to being a Sommelier. No, there are actual practical reasons why we are there. And I understand maybe on the flip side plan, devil's advocate here, maybe a lot of people have come through restaurant interactions, thinking that Sommelliers are very arrogant and unapproachable and they're always gonna serve you the most expensive bottle. That has been forced out of the confines of acceptability if you've gone through the Court of Master Sommeliers, like things like that are really strongly discouraged against, because it doesn't make for a trusting relationship on either side you toward the guests and the guests toward you. And at the end of the day, it is about making a sale. Even if you are making a person happy. I mean, restaurants are a business. I said it so you know, we, it's in our best interest to gain the patron's trust. It's like any other business, so people can't really forget that.

Pratibha Pandit: 33:44

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's really awesome. Natalie, thank you so much. This was very informative and fun conversation. I really appreciate you joining me today. Thank you so much.

Natalie Mathews: 33:56

Thank you for having me. Thank you.

34:00

This is career calling. And I'm your host Pratibha Pandit. Thank you for tuning in.